S2 E4: S2 Ep 4 – Choosing the Right Osteopath and/ or Therapy Coach (Without the Guesswork)

The contracting, as I would call it, it's person centred.

We will deal with whatever you bring on the day.

Ideally it would be weekly or fortnightly.

I wouldn't go any less than fortnightly because we need to build momentum, we need to build that relationship.

And there is some work to be done generally.

And that sometimes involves homework, a bit like you giving out exercises.

If you go and see someone and they don't make a difference within two or three sessions, that's fine.

Maybe the problem is complex and you need to have a look at something else as well.

But if you go and see someone and you've seen them for three sessions, there is no difference and they haven't reviewed and changed their approach, then there may be a little alarm bell ringing to go, well, okay, what's going on?

You know, so you may want to, if they're proposing to do the same treatment four or five or six times and you're not noticing a difference, you may want to question that and ask, well, what do we do next?

Because if they're trying the same approach and there's nothing changing, then they really need to look at what they're doing and change that approach.

Okay, welcome everyone.

This is season two, episode four.

It is.

That's where we're at, Bob.

Yes, we are.

Of our Pain Free Living podcast.

And this one is about really, how do you find or how would you choose?

What do you look for when you're trying to find either an osteopath or a therapy coach?

What do people generally do to find you then, Bob?

In my experience, they tend to Google search or they it'll be a referral from family or friends that have been to see me in the past and make a recommendation.

So those are the two main routes.

How about yourself, Claire?

How would they find you?

Well, again, you can Google, you can google clarelsby.com and you'll find me.

But again, the best referral is from people who you've seen already, just because that's a fantastic testimonial on what you've done and it means that they're very happy with what you've done.

So that's the best way.

There's also, you know, this podcast we're doing now, so hopefully that will, you know, spread the word about what we do.

I think it's quite easy to find us if someone wants to, to find us.

But it's what do you, what are the don'ts, what do you void, what try to avoid?

I think when you're looking for Either a therapy coach or an osteopath.

What, what do you, what grinds your gears, Bob?

Nothing grinds my gears.

Claire?

No, I think, surprise me.

I think it's a good question.

I think that finding a therapist, whatever you're looking for, whether you're looking for a physiotherapist, an osteopath, chiropractor, therapy coach, physio, sorry, psychotherapist, I think that's quite easy because we have Google, we have social media and most people are all over social media so that's how you can find someone.

But as you say, how do you find a good one?

Yeah, Google reviews.

I currently have 79, five star Google reviews.

So that is one way of doing it.

Again, as you say family and friends, getting referrals from them or trustpilot or whatever you look for.

That is, that is a good way to identify a therapist.

What I say to people is probably have two or three because everyone's different.

So every practitioner is different.

And I've had people that I have spoken to or have come to me for one session and then have gone somewhere else because I practice in a certain way and the way that I practice may not be suited for them or they may just not like me.

And you know, that happens in the early days I was crushed when somebody came to see me and never came back.

But now I'm very philosophical about it and I say, well, okay, I'm not the therapist, I'm not the osteopath for them.

So you know, I'm happy to point them in another direction if, if what I do doesn't work for them.

Finding someone to go to is relatively easy.

Now finding someone that can help you, that's more of a challenge.

So again, what I say to people is I'll give them two or three names and I will say ring them up if you can, talk to them, ask them some questions, let them know about what sort of help you're looking for and see what they say.

If you get physical therapists that talks in jargon, they say, oh yeah, so you've got a herniated disc and you've got irritation at L3,45 and that's causing issues with the knee.

And they just talk jargon at you.

That may not be the person view.

Some people like that.

Some people want the technical stuff, but most people don't.

They want to know, you know, a rough idea of what's causing their problems and whether you can help to resolve those problems.

So I absolutely never use jargon.

If somebody asked me a technical question, I'll give them a technical answer.

But most people don't, they just want to know, okay, my back hurts, can you help me?

And I don't launch into a massive speech about, you know, to show how clever I am because that's not what they want.

What they want to know is, can I help them?

So I always say if you can speak to a therapist first and then and see what you think.

Because part of it is having the confidence that the therapist knows what they're talking about, but part of it is having somebody who you have some rapport with, who you get on with.

So you know, that's, that's a big part of it for me.

How about yourself?

Do you, I know that you do a discovery session where you find out whether you are a good fit for them or not.

Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, I mean, I offer a free discovery session.

It's part of the code of ethics of the professional body that I belong to and I feel that's a really good way to start building a relationship and finding if we're right for each other because it's a two way street really, in this relationship.

So I would never launch into paid for sessions straight away.

So that would be a little bit of a red flag if someone didn't offer a discovery session.

I think I'm going to talk now about clinical therapy and then the coaching side of things because there's this, there's this sort of, if you like this line and with the clinical side on one side and then the, the coaching on the other.

So from the clinical work, and that would be a counselor, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, just to give three examples.

And they're all along a spectrum.

They are all going to be clinically qualified.

You will be able to see their professional bodies, you'll be able to see what qualification and training they've got.

You'll be able to see whether they've had, whether they need to do or have done continual professional development, which is cpd.

They'll also put their specialisms generally on the website.

So they'll say what age groups they work with and the kind of clients that they tend to see and whether they deal with trauma.

Because there's some psychotherapists who will specialise in trauma and there's others that won't.

There'll be some that will work with eating disorders and there'll be some that don't.

So it's a bit of looking through the website and if they are registered with say for example the bacp, which is the psychotherapist, main psychotherapist body, then you can be fairly satisfied that they are, they've been checked.

You know, they've got so many practices and they're regulated.

If we go on the other side of the spectrum, coaching is not regulated.

So this is where it's quite, can be tricky to find you to navigate your way through to someone who you feel that you can work with.

So I have made the decision that I wanted to be regulated and I'm a member of a professional body.

So that is on my website.

I've got a code of ethics that I follow and I also have to do CPD as part of that.

And I've also got training in positive psychology, so I've got that side of things.

There are a lot of coaches out there who are not members of a professional body.

So that is one thing that I would look for is do you, do you need to feel comfortable with knowing that that person is qualified to do what they say they're doing?

And are they having, you know, are they having supervision for a start, which is a requirement of my professional body?

You know, am I, can I trust this person that they are ethical enough to look after me?

And then it's about building that relationship because at the end of the day it's like Bob said, you know, you can meet somebody in the discovery session or potentially in your first session and then you just feel the relationship just isn't right for whatever reason.

So they could be as qualified as you like they could have done every training session out there, but maybe they just aren't the right person for you.

So it's, I think having the opportunity for discovery session is really key to it and to make the most of that session, which should be in my mind from at least half an hour to 45 minutes to an hour, anything less than that really, you're not going to be getting the value.

You're not going to be able to tell what that person's going to be like to work with.

And also the discovery session is a two way session.

So that is probably the only session actually where you will talk the same amount of time as the therapy coach the rest of the time.

Actually you should be doing most of the talking.

Yeah, but that is the one time where the therapy coach gets an opportunity to talk about them and the way they work and to see whether they're actually right for you.

We talked about packages at one point, didn't we?

We did talk about packages and this.

Is something I see quite a lot where the first thing people will say to me, or maybe not the first, but towards the end of a discovery session, well, how many sessions do I need?

And unfortunately, I don't know.

You know, I, I don't know without actually maybe having two or three sessions with you, I, I won't know where we're going with this.

I don't even know really what you're bringing.

And what I find is that people will bring one thing, but then by session three or four, it's something completely different.

So the contracting, as I would call it, is very much for.

It's person centered.

We will deal with whatever you bring on the day.

Ideally it would be weekly or fortnightly.

I wouldn't go any less than fortnightly because we need to build momentum, we need to build that relationship.

And there is some work to be done generally and that sometimes involves homework.

A bit like you giving out exercises.

That's what I do.

Yep, absolutely.

So it's quite important for the client to understand there is going to be that week.

There is that weekly or fortnightly commitment.

Beyond that then what I find with clients is they will, depending on how they're feeling, if they're getting on really well, then that will drop down and it might drop down to maybe once a month.

And I have got clients that sometimes I just see once a quarter and it's just a touch base.

So they know that they can talk to me and they know that they can talk to me about stuff they don't talk to anyone, anyone else about and they find that really valuable.

So even though they've, if you like worked through whatever it was that was pulling them back or making them feel stuck, they just like to keep that, that relationship going.

So if I came to see you and I said, how long is it going to take?

You wouldn't immediately go, well, that'll be at least 10 sessions.

Here, sign on the dotted line.

Yeah, no, I, yeah, not a recommended.

No, the thing I see a lot of is six, six packages and then we'll review it.

But actually for some of my clients, you know, we're, we're.

Because I'm not dealing with huge clinical issues.

You know, three sessions and they're like you said in a previous episode, two sessions.

So I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And to be honest, it's similar with me.

It's less so in physical therapy because to me, average three to four sessions.

Sometimes it's Longer than that.

Sometimes it's less time than that, but I wouldn't.

So the question I get asked is exactly the same as you.

How many sessions do you think it'll be?

And like I said, like you said, you need to have at least the first session to work out exactly what's going on.

Because everyone's different.

So therefore, some people, the guy with the dodgy knee, two sessions and he's done.

He's well enough to go off and do all the things that he wanted to do.

Some people I have been seeing for a couple of years because they're runners, they get injured quite regularly.

Despite my best efforts to give them advice and exercise and all of those things, they still get hurt.

So, yeah, initially once a week for a first couple of sessions, then go a couple of weeks and then monthly, and then, you know, sometimes it'll be a couple of months and then we're done.

We don't.

They don't need me anymore.

And that's always my primary aim, is to get them to a point where they don't need me.

Yeah, not a great business model.

No, but that.

But from my perspective, that is my main aim.

Some therapists do maintenance sessions, you know, come back and see me in three months and.

Whereas rather, I would rather give them the option to say, okay, if you need to see me, I'm here.

You know, we might be able to sort it out in a phone call, but if you need to book in, book in.

But I don't typically say come back in three months.

So one of the things from a physical therapy perspective is that if.

If you go and see someone and they don't make a difference within two or three sessions, that that's fine.

Maybe the problem is complex and they need to.

And you need to have a look at something else as well.

But if you go and see someone and you've seen them for three sessions, there is no difference.

And they haven't reviewed and changed their approach, then there may be a little alarm bell ringing to go, well, okay, what's going on?

You know, so you may want to check if they're proposing to do the same treatment four or five or six times and you're not noticing a difference.

You may want to question that and ask, well, what do we do next?

Because if they're trying the same approach and there's nothing changing, then they really need to look at what they're doing and change that approach.

So that would be one of my.

One of my key things is, yeah, if you've Got a concern.

If you're not sure exactly what's going on, ask.

They should always tell you exactly what they're treating, why they're treating it, if it's uncomfortable, if there's going to be any pain treatment, you should be comfortable having a conversation with your therapist and asking questions of them and they should be happy to give you answers.

If they can't give you answers again, I'd be wondering, well, you know what, what aren't you telling me?

So that, that's more of a physical therapist approach, a little bit different to yours, but same sort of thing.

I do free 15 minute assessments and, you know, so people ring me and we'll talk about what the problems are and then I'll let them know whether I think I can help or not.

Yeah.

I have a little slight similar thing in that I get a lot of people coming to me saying I need cbt because that's what they've read, that's what's on the nhs, that's the treatment they know.

And after the discovery session and maybe session one, it's like, I don't think think CBT is actually going to be the.

So it's about having that discussion with them to make, to help them understand that actually CBT isn't necessarily the right approach for them and it could be for all sorts of reasons.

But yes, I find that CBT is the cure all for everything.

Yeah.

Because it's the government approved approach because it's standardized and you can track the stats on it and see how well or not that it's been done.

But as with everything therapy related, there is no one size fits all because everyone's different.

So yeah, I think that those are kind of good points.

Is there anything else that we might have missed?

I don't think so.

I think the key thing, and this goes back to my background as an accountant, it's all about the relationship and you said about language and that's been my experience in working in the accountancy world is working.

We can, we're, we can be in danger of being hugely techy and using big words and actually, you know, we need.

The good accountant can not only do the numbers, but they can also explain it in a way that's understandable for the person.

Yeah.

And if you understand your subject, you can break it down and explain it really simply to somebody who knows nothing about medical.

Medical world at all.

Yeah.

And they will still.

And in my experience over the years, the more people understand about the problem, their pain points, what's causing those pain points, the more likely they are to do the exercises or whatever you want them to do post treatment, you know.

So, yeah, like I said, I can do the technical stuff, but I don't.

I find I don't need to because most people that aren't interested in technical stuff is, it's, can you help me?

What are we going to do?

And then, you know.

So one of the things that I know works is because typically for physio and other therapists, the number of people actually do the exercises once they leave the clinic room is quite small.

Whereas in my case, what I do is I always explain the benefits of the exercises that are being done, always explain, and I'll give them as much detail as they want.

And because people understand why they're doing the exercises and the benefits of doing it, they do them.

It's very rare that they don't, you know, it's just because people don't take the time.

Yeah.

I find that the clients that come to me and if I do give them homework, it's optional, they don't have to do it.

But the ones that do and the ones that come regularly make the most progress.

Yeah, yeah.

Consistent.

Yeah.

Consistency is key.

And the.

Want to do it.

Yeah, I think, yeah.

And that's.

And the same with the exercises.

They may not want to do the exercise, but if you tell them that's going to help get rid of their pain, then they're all on board with it.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah.

Is there anything else we can tell people, Claire?

Things to look for, things to avoid?

I think just from my point of view, just be mindful of the regulations.

It doesn't quite quite.

It's not quite the same in your.

In your field.

No.

Well, it.

Not really.

I mean, so you've got physiotherapists, chiropractors and osteopaths.

We're all regulated professionals, we have professional bodies.

But you've also.

I, I know some excellent massage therapists, some excellent sports therapists.

They.

They're not.

It's not a degree, but they are all highly qualified and they can all help.

Yeah.

You know, and it.

But as long as they understand that there are certain things that they should not do, stay within their scope of practice, it's fine.

Yes.

So, yeah.

And that's where it's all about being professional as a therapist and knowing your boundaries and having that network to refer to.

Absolutely.

Which is what we do, what we.

Do all the time.

So I think, I think we're done for this one.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, yeah, thanks again for watching or listening, whichever you're doing.

And we appreciate you being here.

And come back for the next one because it's going to be a slightly different theme on the next one.

We're going to talk a bit more about exercise in a bit more depth, I think.

I think could be wrong.

I'll check.

But, yeah, that's it for now.

Thank you and bye.